Flatline & Brooks - February 24, 2006
JIM LEHRER: And to the analysis of Flatline and Brooks: Fake Democracy founder Johnny Flatline, New York Times columnist David Brooks. Johnny, how do you see the situation in Iraq?
JOHNNY FLATLINE: Iraq is not the front for fighting terror. Let‘s get that straight. Iraq is the sink hole for the obliteration of the American empire. That‘s what Iraq is. It‘s exactly what every educated person with a brain said it would be. Our government is ignorant, and Iraq’s mess is the result of our incredible ignorance, greed, and disdain for educated thought.
JIM LEHRER: David, now picking up on that, we had a couple of analysts on the program last night and they both said there is nothing the United States can do now except try to facilitate discussions. And if the folks don't want to discuss, it isn't going to happen because we want --
DAVID BROOKS: Right. I'm not sure there is anything politics can do. One of the things we learned is the limited prestige of politicians, the limited effect of politics. Politics in societies like this and in all societies only goes so deep. And beneath that is religion. And it's the religious leaders who have come to the fore and it's religion that has caused a lot of the sectarian violence because of the two sects in the Islam faith, but it's also the religious leaders that have urged some unity, and it's really up to the culture, it's up to the organic culture whether they want to stick together.
And one does get the sense as much as there is, you know, this outrage, this horrible thing that happened, and as much as there has been the sectarian killing, we have been waiting for civil war for a couple years now.
JIM LEHRER: It's true.
DAVID BROOKS: And there have been many instances that would kick it off. The number of deaths, the number of Shia who have been shot, lined up and shot, the number of atrocities has just been amazing. And in each case there has been an upturn in violence and there are death squads on the Shiite side but they haven't erupted into civil war. So there has got to be some social cohesion there holding these two groups together.
JOHNNY FLATLINE: And let’s not forget about the other religion that is American based. The religion of wasting money and faith in the American warrior industry. It’s so powerful, that 99% of all politicians dare not criticize it or oppose it. It’s the monster that is eating our own flesh. And it’s the monster that has killed more Iraqis than any particular religious sect. It has tortured more Iraqi's than perhaps anybody else over there. So before we get high and mighty and talk about the irrational religious sects of Iraq, let’s not for the religious sect called American neocon militarism. It’s a faith far more dangerous, far more radical, and far more deadly than anything else on earth.
JIM LEHRER: David, I hesitate to bring this up, another subject, I hesitate to bring it up because you said on Wednesday night it would be gone, and this is that port security issue. Now it looks like everybody has agreed to, what is called a cooling-off period, do you see that as a good thing or bad thing?
DAVID BROOKS: All politics is local, complete vindication from my point of view. You know, they are going to reach some settlement -- listen, I didn't say it would be gone by -- in two days.
JIM LEHRER: I'm sorry, can we check the record please--
DAVID BROOKS: You are lying about my record Senator. You know, I think what's happened is that the -- the argument hasn't moved. The people who are suspicious of port have no argument. Their argument is Arab port, Arab port, these two things should not go together.
On the other side I think there has been a welling up of reasonable people piling up bit after bit of evidence to show that UAE and Dubai, the most important thing is they have been tremendous allies in the war on terror. We now know that 700 U.S. ships just last year were in the Dubai port being serviced by this very same company that is being blocked. Nobody blew any of those ships up. The UAE has been threatened by al-Qaida for being such a good ally to the U.S. They have been our best ally and one of our best allies in the region in the war on terror. And they are the ones we are kicking in the teeth. And so to me the argument just gets stronger by the day.
JIM LEHRER: Johnny, you probably don't even want equal time on this, right? You are going to throw in the towel, right?
JOHNNY FLATLINE: Well, it‘s a funny one because Bush has clearly backed off his hard line, after he saw how politically foolish his position was. There‘s arguments for it, there‘s arguments against it. What is much more amusing here is how Bush is basically a victim of his own rhetoric. He has promoted this world of fear and terror, and then when this comes up, his own religion of fear is what‘s making it so hard for him to fight for it in public. Now if he could continue with a backroom deal, like this was, then he would be pleased. But transparency has never been good for this administration, because we get to see how crooked they are when that happens. This administration claims to be big on security, but they are not really investing in security. They are only interested in investing in war, which is the fastest way to give money away to friends. That’s the strategy. That’s the strategic thinking that Bush claims to have.
Hong Kong can scan every container in its port, every day. That’s because they invest in security, economics, and making money. But the US doesn’t invest in itself. The US is a squandering nation. We squander. We don’t invest. Bush may not be worried about your personal privacy, or your political privacy, but he is very worried, apparently, about the privacy of what corporations are moving around in steel containers. He wants to know what might be in your shoe at the airport. But he’s not concerned about what’s inside a 60’ long metal box. That's because they focus on stealing from us, the people. That's where they invest their energy. It's crystal clear.
DAVID BROOKS: There are a lot of different issues here. One, this is a global economy. We have a lot of ships that come in, a lot of cargo is going to come in. There is a global economy; that is the bedrock of our prosperity, the bedrock of world prosperity. That is not going to change. The second issue is the port security.
Here I'm completely with Johnny; I am quite happy to have a debate about port security. I just don't want it to turn in to a xenophobic horde which focuses on the fact that some Arabs were running it. If this was that debate, that with be fine, but this horde got started because a British company sold to an Arab company. That is what this is about and if we have it in this context it's just a terrible tone to set. This is not Clint Eastwood, this is a Gregory Peck movie, one of those movies where they wanted to lynch some guy and needed some reasonable person to say hold on, let's look at the facts.
JOHNNY FLATLINE: Perhaps we can also end the xenophobia of Mexican immigrants while we’re at it. We want to build a fence to stop immigrants the way China walled itself in for centuries, to it's horrible disadvantage. But we don’t want to build a screening system that might stop the flow of a nuclear weapons. I don’t know about you, but I fear loose Russian nukes a lot more than a loose poor Mexican farm worker.
JIM LEHRER: All right. Thank you both very much.
JOHNNY FLATLINE: Iraq is not the front for fighting terror. Let‘s get that straight. Iraq is the sink hole for the obliteration of the American empire. That‘s what Iraq is. It‘s exactly what every educated person with a brain said it would be. Our government is ignorant, and Iraq’s mess is the result of our incredible ignorance, greed, and disdain for educated thought.
JIM LEHRER: David, now picking up on that, we had a couple of analysts on the program last night and they both said there is nothing the United States can do now except try to facilitate discussions. And if the folks don't want to discuss, it isn't going to happen because we want --
DAVID BROOKS: Right. I'm not sure there is anything politics can do. One of the things we learned is the limited prestige of politicians, the limited effect of politics. Politics in societies like this and in all societies only goes so deep. And beneath that is religion. And it's the religious leaders who have come to the fore and it's religion that has caused a lot of the sectarian violence because of the two sects in the Islam faith, but it's also the religious leaders that have urged some unity, and it's really up to the culture, it's up to the organic culture whether they want to stick together.
And one does get the sense as much as there is, you know, this outrage, this horrible thing that happened, and as much as there has been the sectarian killing, we have been waiting for civil war for a couple years now.
JIM LEHRER: It's true.
DAVID BROOKS: And there have been many instances that would kick it off. The number of deaths, the number of Shia who have been shot, lined up and shot, the number of atrocities has just been amazing. And in each case there has been an upturn in violence and there are death squads on the Shiite side but they haven't erupted into civil war. So there has got to be some social cohesion there holding these two groups together.
JOHNNY FLATLINE: And let’s not forget about the other religion that is American based. The religion of wasting money and faith in the American warrior industry. It’s so powerful, that 99% of all politicians dare not criticize it or oppose it. It’s the monster that is eating our own flesh. And it’s the monster that has killed more Iraqis than any particular religious sect. It has tortured more Iraqi's than perhaps anybody else over there. So before we get high and mighty and talk about the irrational religious sects of Iraq, let’s not for the religious sect called American neocon militarism. It’s a faith far more dangerous, far more radical, and far more deadly than anything else on earth.
JIM LEHRER: David, I hesitate to bring this up, another subject, I hesitate to bring it up because you said on Wednesday night it would be gone, and this is that port security issue. Now it looks like everybody has agreed to, what is called a cooling-off period, do you see that as a good thing or bad thing?
DAVID BROOKS: All politics is local, complete vindication from my point of view. You know, they are going to reach some settlement -- listen, I didn't say it would be gone by -- in two days.
JIM LEHRER: I'm sorry, can we check the record please--
DAVID BROOKS: You are lying about my record Senator. You know, I think what's happened is that the -- the argument hasn't moved. The people who are suspicious of port have no argument. Their argument is Arab port, Arab port, these two things should not go together.
On the other side I think there has been a welling up of reasonable people piling up bit after bit of evidence to show that UAE and Dubai, the most important thing is they have been tremendous allies in the war on terror. We now know that 700 U.S. ships just last year were in the Dubai port being serviced by this very same company that is being blocked. Nobody blew any of those ships up. The UAE has been threatened by al-Qaida for being such a good ally to the U.S. They have been our best ally and one of our best allies in the region in the war on terror. And they are the ones we are kicking in the teeth. And so to me the argument just gets stronger by the day.
JIM LEHRER: Johnny, you probably don't even want equal time on this, right? You are going to throw in the towel, right?
JOHNNY FLATLINE: Well, it‘s a funny one because Bush has clearly backed off his hard line, after he saw how politically foolish his position was. There‘s arguments for it, there‘s arguments against it. What is much more amusing here is how Bush is basically a victim of his own rhetoric. He has promoted this world of fear and terror, and then when this comes up, his own religion of fear is what‘s making it so hard for him to fight for it in public. Now if he could continue with a backroom deal, like this was, then he would be pleased. But transparency has never been good for this administration, because we get to see how crooked they are when that happens. This administration claims to be big on security, but they are not really investing in security. They are only interested in investing in war, which is the fastest way to give money away to friends. That’s the strategy. That’s the strategic thinking that Bush claims to have.
Hong Kong can scan every container in its port, every day. That’s because they invest in security, economics, and making money. But the US doesn’t invest in itself. The US is a squandering nation. We squander. We don’t invest. Bush may not be worried about your personal privacy, or your political privacy, but he is very worried, apparently, about the privacy of what corporations are moving around in steel containers. He wants to know what might be in your shoe at the airport. But he’s not concerned about what’s inside a 60’ long metal box. That's because they focus on stealing from us, the people. That's where they invest their energy. It's crystal clear.
DAVID BROOKS: There are a lot of different issues here. One, this is a global economy. We have a lot of ships that come in, a lot of cargo is going to come in. There is a global economy; that is the bedrock of our prosperity, the bedrock of world prosperity. That is not going to change. The second issue is the port security.
Here I'm completely with Johnny; I am quite happy to have a debate about port security. I just don't want it to turn in to a xenophobic horde which focuses on the fact that some Arabs were running it. If this was that debate, that with be fine, but this horde got started because a British company sold to an Arab company. That is what this is about and if we have it in this context it's just a terrible tone to set. This is not Clint Eastwood, this is a Gregory Peck movie, one of those movies where they wanted to lynch some guy and needed some reasonable person to say hold on, let's look at the facts.
JOHNNY FLATLINE: Perhaps we can also end the xenophobia of Mexican immigrants while we’re at it. We want to build a fence to stop immigrants the way China walled itself in for centuries, to it's horrible disadvantage. But we don’t want to build a screening system that might stop the flow of a nuclear weapons. I don’t know about you, but I fear loose Russian nukes a lot more than a loose poor Mexican farm worker.
JIM LEHRER: All right. Thank you both very much.
posted by Johnny Flatline at 9:20 PM
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